Confusing the poor parents

I had an interview yesterday with a journalist from one of the major Australian newspapers which will probably be published this weekend. We spoke for 1/2 an hour but I doubt that more than 1 or 2 sentences – if that much – of what I said will appear.

The interview was interesting for several reasons – the most curious of which, to me anyway, was an attitude of blind faith towards anything doctors said and a sense that parents were delicate, not very bright creatures who needed to be told what to do because they just were not quite capable of making decisions themselves. Doctors have been studying this issue their whole lives, he told me, so who are you to ask these questions?

I answered him in two words: Vioxx and Avandia. Doctors claimed for years that these products were both safe and effective. They were wrong. They have been wrong about many other things in the past. A medical degree does not make you infallible and parents need to be fully informed because if the doctor is telling them something that is not right for their particular child, the doctor is not going to be taking responsibility for raising their vaccine-injured child – they will.

Let me share a bit.

This gentleman (and he was a gentleman – a very nice man to talk to) called to discuss the recent HCCC decision and why the AVN has chosen to make a stand on this freedom of speech issue.

During the conversation, we discussed many aspects of vaccination, but there were a couple of points we talked about that bear repeating.

When I spoke about how the AVN’s information is sourced from mainstream, peer-reviewed journals, this reporter said (not verbatim) – Yes, but when you give parents too much information, you just confuse them and they are not able to make a decision.

I was very taken aback. I think I may have read this or heard it in the last couple of days so this idea is obviously out there in the media.

I lost my temper a bit (have to admit) and said that I felt this was a very archaic attitude to have and I was surprised that someone in his position would hold such a view. In our experience, parents are perfectly capable of understanding all aspects of vaccination – at least as capable as doctors are – and that informing them of both sides should be the doctors’ job but that doctors aren’t doing it so we have to.

He then said that we are asking parents to take a lot of time to do this research and that parents don’t have the time in this day and age. He said that there are now so many vaccines and so many different aspects to vaccination and it is just too hard for parents to plow through all of that.

I agreed that in order to make an informed decision, parents would have to take time and research. I then told him that if the thousands of parents I have spoken with over the years whose children have either been killed or permanently injured by vaccination had been offered the opportunity to spend a couple of weeks researching this issue before vaccinating, I believe that all of them would have said yes. They just were not given that opportunity.

I then used one of my favourite analogies and targeted it to this situation – I think it rings true.

If you or your partner were in the market for a new car, would you go downtown to the first car dealership you came to, walk in and say – “Sell me a car! I know there are a hundred different cars available and heaps of options for each car, but it is all too confusing for me. I can’t take the time to look at these features and to compare my options. Here is $40,000 – just give me a car.”

That would be ridiculous and anyone who did that would rightly be called a fool.

So why then, when we have an issue as complex and important as the future health of the most precious people in the world – our children – would we do less research than we would if we were buying a car (or a fridge, a dishwasher, a house…) Aren’t our children worth more than money to us?

If I were going out to buy a car tomorrow, I would do research in magazines that review vehicles; I would speak with friends and family about their cars – what they liked about them and what they didn’t; I would visit several different dealers and arrange to test drive the models that I had short listed; I would look at the environmental aspects of the cars. Then – and only then – would I make a decision about what I would be spending my hard-earned dollars on.

When my son was born, I thought that vaccination was a no-brainer. The truth is, I was a no-brainer. I didn’t consider the benefits and risks because I had been told that there were only benefits – no risks – and I believed my doctor and didn’t look any further.

My son taught me more than all my years of schooling. He taught me some of the most important lessons I have learned in this life. One of those lessons is that every medical procedure has BOTH benefits and risks; that before making any decision regarding my health or the health of those within my care, I needed to be informed of both of these aspects.

Do I wish I had asked those questions before vaccinating him? You bet I do! Does he wish I had done that? I’m sure he does.

But that is what drives me so strongly to try and ensure that other parents have access to this information before they vaccinate. To ensure that they ask questions about the upside and the downside of vaccines so that whatever their decision – in the end, it will be THEIR decision – not their doctor’s; not the government’s; not their mother-in-law’s; not their neighbour’s. Their decision.

Because when it comes down to it, parents are not only capable of making these informed choices – it is their absolute right to do so. And anyone who tells them otherwise is being deceptive and misleading and is a danger to the health of the future generations of Australians.

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25 thoughts on “Confusing the poor parents

  1. Dear Meryl,

    I am still waiting for:

    1. the name, rank, and station, of the Police officer handling the complaint, and

    2. the NSW Police COPS database incident number.

    Kenny

  2. Dear Meryl,

    reference your claim that you have informed the NSW Police of threats made to you and harrasment of you.

    Please inform me:

    1. the name, rank, and station, of the Police officer handling the complaint, and

    2. the NSW Police COPS database incident number.

    thanks

    Kenny

  3. Great interview!!! :-)

    Meryl only got one thing wrong: there are NO benefits or upsides to vaccines – apart of course from those of a financial nature for the criminals who promote this child abuse.

    Vaccination is an organised criminal enterprise disguised as disease prevention, and, as Dr Herbert Shelton puts it:

    “Belief in immunization is a form of delusional insanity.”

    Dr A Kalokerinos MD, Australia:

    “When I looked into it further, I was shocked to find that this whole vaccine business was indeed a gigantic hoax. Most doctors believe that vaccines are useful, but when you look at the proper statistics you find that this is is not so.”

    The statistics Dr Kalokerinos was referring to are official statistics such as these, which are here depicted in graph form (click on each ‘Read more…’ to view graphs):

    http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=55

    “Our society is littered with millions of children who have been harmed in one way or another by vaccines. Also, let us not forget the millions of parents who had to watch helplessly as their childern’s lives have been destroyed by devastating vaccination programmes.”

    Dr Russell Blaylock MD, US neurosurgeon, author and health educator in ‘The Truth Behind The Vaccine CoverUp’

    http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock.html

    For further information, please visit the ‘Vaccination Information Network’ (VINE) on Facebook:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vaccination-Information-Network-VINE/69667273997?v=app_2392950137#!/pages/Vaccination-Information-Network-VINE/69667273997

  4. hey this is better than the gruen transfer, the laughs i mean. but seriously what did it all have to do with allowing perants to have access to quality information from both sides of the ledger. WASN’T THAT WHAT THIS WAS ABOUT.
    I don’t like being treated like a mushroom(kept in the dark fed on nothing but…) you know the story.
    i will risk being confused

  5. Oh also Andy, if you ever have a horrible accident where you sever a limb like someone close to me (who is a naturopathy/homeopathy/organic food adherent) did recently, good luck with “living in harmony with nature” and rejecting all those nasty pharmaceutical drugs.
    Good luck having five hours of plastic surgery and recovering without using evil anaesthetics, painkillers, anti inflammatories and antibiotics.

    My friend had her limb saved in a major teritary hospital with the best surgeons and drugs available, and HOLISTIC (a word that natural health people seem to think is theirs exclusively) care afterwards from nurses, physios, OT’s and a (properly trained and registered) clinical psychologist who taught her meditation techniques. I’m just sick of you people implying that doctors/nurses/trained medical practioners are killers when what they do and all they want to do is save lives and help people after the worst kinds of events.

    I hope you never need this kind of treatment, but you should be thankful you live in a country where it’s freely available to you if you do (well for the paltry cost of the medicare levy that is).

  6. I love reading the comedy gold on this blog.

    Andy seems to be saying that visiting doctors for conventional medical treatments (the kind that unfortunately sometimes have unpleasant side effects because they have an effect on your body) and buying (and eating) vegetables are mutually exclusive.
    Erm pretty much EVERYONE eats some fruit and vegetables, even people who get ill.
    Erm most people can walk the block from the dr’s surgery to the nearest vegetable shop, most people aren’t so stupid that they need to see a vegetable shop next to a dr surgery to make the equation of vegetables with good health! (maybe not AVN commenters I guess).

    Andy seems to be saying that pharmacists only sell conventional medicines. Every pharmacy I go to has a wall full of vitamins and supplements and very often a consulting naturopath and homeopath. Nothing wrong with that if people want that, it’s supply and demand. But don’t falsely claim that pharmacists are only interested in conventional medicine.

    Andy seems to be saying that conventional medicine is unconcerned with disease prevention and health promotion.
    – State Governments spend *millions* on health promotion designed to prevent illness and chronic conditions in the population. These include but are not limited to smoking cessation, moderate alcohol consumption, encouraging everyone to eat more fruit and vegetables (not necessarily organic, given that a) there’s no evidence that’s any better for you even if it tastes beter and b) most people can’t afford to buy organic fruit and veg). I think it’s great that our tax dollars to go to these campaigns.
    – Every day, ordinary doctors routinely advise their patients to eat better food and exercise more. Those are basic health prevention prescriptions; there is nothing mystical about it and you don’t need to go to a special naturopath to learn the basic food pyramid or the formula “put good stuff in your body and exercise and you’ll be healthier”.

    Modern medicine is NOT all about living in harmony with nature. That’s not what medicine’s for. You can go back to the stone ages if you want to do that. Modern medicine is also NOT all about pharmaceutical drugs. It is about them when they’re needed, and very often they are. Thank science that we have them. I would not want to live in a world without penicillin, antibiotics, paracetamol and other painkillers, or vaccines (can I say that?).

    Andy just to finish, I laughed myself stupid when you demanded that someone ‘name one doctor who etc’ then said ‘there are exceptions’ just in case someone says ‘well my doctor has a vegetable shop next door’.

  7. I can vouch for these doctors -our daughters both use an ACNEM trained GP as do I – these doctors know about good nutrition and take in the environmental aspects of health…do extensive testing before making a decision and the ones we know are always updating their knowledge. They do often have a naturopath nearby or are qualified in that respect as well. They treat the whole body and with one of our daughters who was very ill and who would still be ill with conventional medicine, their treatment halped her to slowly but surely return to a state of ehalth where she is able to get back into the workforce – conventional medicine’s attitude was that her serious problems were all in her head and maybe she should just take some Prozac and go home…in that condition she would most likely not be with us today, or be still bedbound. On the ACNEM site as mentioned above is a list of refferals all over Australia of these doctors.

  8. and Phil, many of these vaccine sale reps are recently out of school and are eager to please. The doctors, well, they enjoy the income supplementation. It would be a silly doctor to reject years of training and future income, to oppose all of that, and why would they?

    Modern medicine is not about living in harmony with nature.
    Modern medicine is all about pharmaceutical drugs.

    Name one doctor without a pharmacy next door.
    Name one doctor with a nutritionist or naturopath next door.
    Name one doctor with a vegetable store next door.
    Name one doctor who promotes organic foods.

    As always, there are exceptions. The AVN can provide examples, for those who want. They are busy doctors.

    • If people would like to get in touch with doctors who don’t believe that pharmaceutical drugs are the answer to all ills, I recommend that you visit the website of the Australian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine.

  9. …’it is this culture of prefessional arrogance which has to stop…an attitude no doubt propelled by the wishes of Pharmaceutical companies and by the needs of very lucrative “research” dollars – a major source of income to many specialists’…

    Very adroit observation Therese, especialy the part about the ‘research’ dollars.

    Medical schools emphasize treatment, not prevention. Doctors are too busy to do the research so they rely 100% in most cases on what vaccine sales reps tells them about the the safety and effectiveness of their products. Too many of doctors would fear losing their medical license if they question vaccine safety.

  10. RobH you really made me laugh. I think you were trying to make a point so I will play along with your scenario. Today, being Friday you ventured into town and saw a lady that was wisely making sure that there were safety features in the car of her interest, like: what the depth of tread was on the tires, was there a strong anchor point for the child safety seat, ABS, airbags, safety certificate, mechanically sound, no wear on the seat belts etc. On Wednesday one of your mates had been into town with a minder as he was have a lucid day (he suffers from a condition similar to schizophrenia you see) and he saw this lady making her investigations. However, his mind interpreted her as a crazy woman wearing a sandwich board and supposedly shouting out all sorts of ridiculous and irrational things. His mind couldn’t filter out the noise and see the wisdom and he returned to Ward 10 with this obscure story, planted this seed of weirdness into Rob’s head (Rob has his problems too – he thinks that he is Superman and loses his strength when exposed to Kryptonite), and so when Rob ventured into town he was looking for the woman who fitted his mate’s description. I think that the Psychiatric Hospital staff should do a better filtering job on what the patients watch – a touch too much of Superman I think.

  11. Hi Meryl,
    as an early childhood educator, who is very interested in child development and child health, i really look forward to the new posts on your blog. I dont know though, whether these people who reply to you, such as those above, are real, or if you have scripted them!! the points they raise just make me more and more sure that the information i am receiving from you is right! keep paying these guys to write crazy and terrorising comments on your blog as i am sure it is helping people that may not have been sure whether to vaccinate or not, see what might happen to one’s mind and personality if they do!!

    • Mel, quite honestly, you couldn’t PAY someone to make this stuff up! I do wonder what motivates these people. And rather than entering into a respectful debate the way that adults normally do, there is nothing but bile, vile language and threats. This is not normal – not at all.

  12. Dear Meryl.
    You write apropos your interview/er; “Doctors have been studying this issue their whole lives, he told me, so who are you to ask these questions?

    I answered him in two words: Vioxx and Avandia. Doctors claimed for years that these products were both safe and effective. They were wrong….”.

    http://avn.org.au/nocompulsoryvaccination/?p=758

    Meryl. Due to the success of medical modelling and monitoring, Vioxx problems became apparent in 2004, followed by removal from market, investigation and billion dollar payouts. Merck won 11 of 16 Vioxx suits. Then, in 2007 made a mockery of conspiracy claims & agreed to a payout plan involving client specificity. Viz:
    >”Of the 59,365 original claims, 1,343 were deemed ineligible, leaving 58,022 potentially eligible claims, said Orran Brown, chairman of BrownGreer. Almost 25,000 claims resulted in no payment, he said. He said today that 99.9 percent of claims were resolved under the settlement program.”<

    http://bit.ly/cZS4Df

    Avandia's patent **expires in 2012** – hardly a conspiratorial win for Dr. Darstardly Dan. The Avandia trial independent meta-analysis was published in 2007 and this was then the only source of data condemning Avandia. Regulation discovered both problems. The FDA – not Jenny McCarthy or Meryl Dorey – is presently acting in the publics interest over Avandia;

    http://bit.ly/aVeTM2

    Clearly new age nonsense played no part in either case – whilst the "allopathic" institutions you rail against apparently handed over your ammunition, and offer a solution.

    Is this an admission that the AVN and yourself had no answer for over a decade of collecting donations, libeling Australian G.P.'s, threatening to sue Fed. Health Minister's, pushing fear, whilst selling "the right to choose" and Conscientious Objection? As a vaccine watchdog, what is the point surrounding these analgesic and diabetic meds – managed well by mainstream medicine?

    Prior to 2004 what information constituted "informed" choice? What answer would you have given in 2003? Noting Avandia's unexpired patent, is this not a devastating blow to your conspiracy claims? Are you not revealed as scrambling frantically in damage control, fear mongering whilst offering to save us from imagined fears? How could such an astonishing error as referencing the success of mainstream medicine go unnoticed? Show Me The Mercury!

    I also note your "alternatives" scattered about this site, have maimed and killed in every nation in which they are falsely promoted. Whilst I admire your grasp of the Australian "she'll be right mate" approach, compared to the superiority of medicine you note above, I've only **one** word as my answer: Thalidomide.

    • Hi Paul,
      I appreciate your taking the time to write this – but your point has somehow gotten lost. Are you saying that the tens of thousands who died from Avandia, Vioxx and Thalidomide were somehow an indication of the success of Western medicine? If so, I think you may be a bit deluded.

  13. Difference between Vaccination and Vioxx/Avandia being, of course, that the concerns about the drugs were raised by well respected DOCTORs, after well analysed retrospective studies, not a group of whackos(which includes a minority of “doctors” who somehow passed medical school) with no respect for the scientific method and community. Comparing yourself with the doctors who raised concern about Vioxx is nothing more than an insult to them.

    • Jimmy, Jimmy. I think you may need to look again. The doctors who were paid by the manufacturer did everything they could to discredit those who asked questions (much like with the vaccination issue, don’t you think? It was the few independent and ethical medicos who fought long and hard against all odds who finally got these drugs withdrawn – too late for the tens of thousands who were killed and the hundreds of thousands with permanent injuries. Perhaps you need to look a bit closer at the history of these events?

  14. I think a more valid “car showroom” analogy would be that the showroom is run by people who actually consider people’s circumstances and vehicular needs and do their best to recommend the most appropriate vehicle, if any. Outside the showroom is a shouty crazy woman wearing a sandwich board, screaming into a megaphone and handing out pamphlets from the Australian Vehicle Network about how CARS ARE POISON! and VEHICLES WILL KILL YUR BABIES! and LOVE THEM, PROTECT THEM, NEVER TRANSPORT THEM! while claiming that car engines work by channeling the fury of demons maddened by radioactive kryptonite. Every so often the people in the dealership ask the crazy lady to keep the noise down or get off their property, at which point she launches into a big diatribe about how they’re trying to squash freedom of expression and don’t they know it’s a democracy. When traffic congestion or vehicle safety is in the news, journalists interview the crazy sandwich board lady to get “both sides of the story”.

  15. Its not just the parents of children that most doctors and media think are stupid, my experience has been that there is no full disclosure at all practiced in modern hospitals these days and that many GPs are the same. It was this lack of honesty or of even a small smidgen of honesty which led to my husband’s brutal death inside a NSW teaching hospital – we asked the right questions but they either lied outright or lied by ommission -it is this culture of prefessional arrogance which has to stop…an attitude no doubt propelled by the wishes of Pharmaceutical companies and by the needs of very lucrative “research” dollars – a major source of income to many specialists

    • Thanks for sharing this with us Therese. The number of people I know whose deaths were hastened by medical treatment is truly astounding and if you asked most people, they would also know several. It is time for doctors to lose that arrogance you speak of and to start treating their patients with some respect – going to medical school is not a one-way track to sainthood. Doctors are not God.

  16. Ken McLeod – you are the one who makes unsubstantiated accusations – not me. And I owe you nothing so please stop asking – you are embarrassing yourself.

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