We are constantly being told that the AVN is anti-vaccine and the we somehow try to prevent parents from hearing about the ‘benefits’ of vaccination (information about which is available through 99% of media reports and virtually 100% of doctor’s offices / hospitals / council clinics) whilst forcing them to listen to our information on the dangers and ineffectiveness of this medical procedure.
Yet in reality, we are the ones who tell people to see their doctors before making a decision about whether or not to vaccinate their children. We are the ones who include links to many mainstream medical sources on our website. And we are the ones who always try to include vaccine ‘experts’ in our seminars when they occur.
Next week, I will be speaking at two seminars on the Far North Coast of NSW – in Byron Bay on the 19th of June and in Lismore on the 20th.
Before I had even confirmed both venues, I invited Dr Chris Ingall, one of the most outspoken proponents of mass vaccination in this area, to be a speaker. Below is the letter I sent him on the 24th of May:
Dear Dr Ingall,
I hope this letter finds you in good health.
I am writing to inform you that the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN), Inc will be hosting two seminars on the issue of vaccination in the Lismore and Byron Bay area next month. I would like to ask if you would be prepared to be one of the speakers so that those in attendance will be able to get a balanced view of this most important issue.
You will be given 1/2 an hour for your talk and I would be very happy for you to be there to answer questions at the end of the seminar as well.
If you would feel more comfortable, I am happy for you to suggest a moderator for the evening who will be fair and unbiased.
The date for Lismore is locked in at the 20th of June and the seminar starts at 7 PM and will go (with question time) until approximately 10 PM
Byron Bay is not yet confirmed, but it will either be the day before – the 19th of June or the day after – the 21st of June.
I would appreciate it if you could let me know as soon as possible if you are available for either or both of these events so I can try to arrange an alternate speaker should these dates not fit with your schedule.
Kind regards,
Meryl Dorey
I had to resend the invitation to him on the 28th because I hadn’t received an answer, but on the 29th, he wrote back to me as follows (an email which I felt was very cordial):
Dear Meryl,
Thank you for your kind invitation to speak at your upcoming Seminars. Unfortunately I am unavailable to talk on those evenings. I am sure you will find someone of equal or greater interest to fill my spot.
Kind Regards,
Chris Ingall
I responded by thanking him for getting back to me and I asked if he would be able to suggest anyone else who might possibly be interested in speaking at these events but he did not reply.
On the 30th of May, I sent the same letter (with the addition of confirmed details for the Byron Bay event) to Mr Vahid Saberi, CEO of the North Coast Medicare Local. I also sent it to Mr Paul Corben, Director of Mid North Coast Public Health and called his office and spoke with his assistant, Colleen, regarding this event. I tried to call Marianne Trent who is the immunisation coordinator at the North Coast Public Health Unit, but she will not speak with me, return my calls, emails, faxes or letters. She is a public servant who does not believe it is her role to serve all of the public – only those who are not associated with the AVN.
I never received a response from Vahid Saberi and it was only after 3 calls to Paul Corben’s office, the most recent being yesterday when I once again spoke with his assistant, Colleen, that I finally received a response from the man himself:
So while it seems that the mainstream medical authorities like to talk a big game about supporting choice on health issues and wanting to ensure that everyone is fully-informed (since that their requirement according to the National Health and Medical Research Council), when it comes down to it, their actions speak far louder than their words. They are anti-choice and will do everything in their power to keep the parents of Australia from learning about the other side of the vaccination debate – a debate they refuse to participate in.
Wow clearly cowards can’t stand dear sweet and utterly reasonable Meryl Dorey having an opinion about vaccines and wanting to share information she believes is pertinent and ignored by the establishment that they have to organise and log on here and do their miserable “Cointelpro” (google it and learn) by rating down good comments and leaving their own obviously moronic opinions. My God. What a bunch of disgraceful losers. Meryl you are simply a champion and a HERO and never let anyone tell you otherwise. From a vaccine damaged person who narrowly escaped severe disability, where my sibling did not. The deepest ugliness of ignorant fascism is alive and quivering in Australia. Let her speak cowards. Oh, and why don’t you hypocrites show up to her events anyway. Afraid of question time by any chance? I bet. Losers. Intellectually your time is coming and history will NOT remember you kindly. Bottom of the barrel you bunch of scum bags. Silencing of free speech will not be tolerated! No mincing words with fascists and their fake contrived medical excuses. FREEDOM!!!
Nurse Morton (aka Nurse Kia) sounds like she’s angling for an invite! Check out SaveAVN site.
Indeed I am. Surely you can see how badly I need informing?
I dont see any disrespect of you or the AVN in their replies. They simple say they arent coming.. how does that translate to disrespect from the whole medical community?
No doubt SAVN are busy plotting ways to foil Meryl’s talks (even if it means harrassing venue managers), so it surprises me that they are pretending that no one is interested that this talk is going ahead. Surely it’s not too much to ask that a suitably qualified member of a govt recognized medical body be present at Meryl’s talks in the interests of balance. After all, SAVN wouldn’t want the general public brainwashed by our ‘evil cult leader’ now would they? The more they try to suppress the debate, the more attention they draw to our cause. Way to go SAVN! Who needs advertising with you around?
You know, just a thought, but perhaps provision of some of the pamphlets, booklets and information sheets that are available to all from the NSW Ministry of Health website, or the two metro Children’s Hospitals (Sydney) or indeed Immunise Australia would help to provide balance? The contact details of the local Public Health Unit? They are more than happy to answer questions when parents contact them.
Unfortunately if you are asking Ministry of Health employees to attend and speak at a seminar in their capacity as a Ministry of Health employee then that may be refused under the provisions and contracts those employees work under.
However, given the history of the Director of Public Health for the Mid North Coast LHD being publicly called a liar across many forums by the President of the AVN, perhaps the response is understandable. It’s not cowardice that is an issue, and perhaps it is disrespect, but not disrespect for parents.
Perhaps one should also reflect upon bridges burnt when complaining that no one wants to appear at their seminar? And perhaps these professionals actually have a job to do that doesn’t involve dropping everything for every group that comes along inviting them to speak..
Wendy, the only forums where Paul Corben was called a liar are those run by your friends at the Australian Skeptics and Stop the AVN. I have NEVER called him a liar – it is the lying skeptics who say that I did. So the bridges have not been burnt by myself.
Having an actual expert appear at an AVN seminar will only make the AVN look like a credible source of health information while reflecting poorly on the expert as Meryl gish gallops all over the place. Would a SETI scientist bother speaking at Secret Nazi UFO Moonbase conference?
this is disgraceful. what cowards they all must be if they cannot stand up and present the facts as they see them to the people who want to know. and how rude to turn down an opportunity to speak at such a seminar in a nasty and snide manner. oh well – all it does is make me even more convinced that my lack of faith in our so called health authorities is justified. the more one tries to supress the truth the more the people wake up to it. i thank the stars that i am a skeptic enough to do my own research on the issue of vaccination and not just blindly believe what these idiots try to tell us.
Appalling. Not at all surprised. Just checked out the Stop the AVN site. They’re off their rockers! I can’t understand how people support such a view as theirs. The descriptions used against the AVN are equaled only in a primary school yard!
Meryl,
Surely you can present 30 Minuets of ‘balance’ in your own forum?
Aren’t you about informed choice?
Really!
Meryl, it is the responsibility of each and every person educating the public about important public health issues, such as vaccination, to present both the pros and cons of the issue so people can decide what is best for themselves and their families. As a person who has been actively researching this topic for over 20 years I am sure you are more than capable of presenting a balanced perspective without any input from those mentioned in your blog.
Also, have you ever considered that the fact you are charging for this forum might make it difficult for people employed by the public purse to consider presenting at your seminar?
I genuinely think that’s a shame.
I have a long history of exchanges and bipartisan presentations with people holding polarised views. I don’t have any other colleagues who have “protagonist interlocutors” on their Xmas Card list.
Yet in all honesty, and not patronising your intent, I’m reminded of Dr. Martin’s response to me when I queried potential for bipartisan exchanges on your blog/Facebook.
He argued that those who sought discourse had actually damaged any chance of it due to complaints and criticism of the AVN. I was a little surprised he associated all who might debate with you as being involved in the complaints or criticism to which he referred.
Having said that, and with utmost respect, I’ve also noticed a reversal of origin re the tactics he referred to. So, it may be that as one reflects upon your own conduct and/or description of vaccine programmes, it has had a deleterious effect on your chances of being a party to discussion on parental concerns about vaccination.
Over the last year or so the angle has shifted to taking concerns of parents with paramount respect and I count myself as one who accepts the “vacuums” science leaves in it’s wake. I also think we must acknowledge this rather than allow fighting against what it might produce.
Yet, as I wrote recently in reviewing Dr. Martins’s examination of the opposing views for and against the AVN, I felt that so extreme had your condemnation of certain groups and individuals been that only passage of time could see you once again sought after as an interlocutor on this topic.
So in conclusion Meryl, knowing you won’t post this and genuinely afraid of sending you into a rage, I can only suggest you seriously consider ending provocation and censorship of those who really do wish to discuss evidence with you.
You have had an extremely fortunate year on the legal front and most expected heads down and hard work. Instead you seem to be expressing over and again that your rights are being intentionally suppressed. The chance to capitalise on your victories was in this way, squandered.
As mainstream medicine moves closer to embracing parental fears about vaccination you have regrettably moved further and further away from actually reflecting the status quo of this demographic. Tragically just as the door has opened you now find yourself with an expired entry pass.
The decision to allow you to share a platform with conventional medical specialists is not down to Dr. Ingall, Paul Corben or NSW Health. It’s down to Meryl Dorey who needs to choose between “fighting funds” against regulatory standards or “fair and free expression” within the accountability all professionals must be held to.
I wish you all the best on your journey, regardless of the direction chosen.
Paul Gallagher.
I applaud your efforts to include “the other side” at your seminar, and in such a polite and respectful manner (which is in contrast to the usual treatment of the
AVN). I would like to say that this will silence those who call you “anti-vaccine” however I doubt very much that will be the case.
I don’t get it. Are they pro-choice or anti-choice?
Do they or do they not have a “choice” in accepting or rejecting the invite, or is their attendance at your AVN sponsored talks mandatory?
So do the doctors have any experts or representatives to tell us anything about vaccination or should we all continue to educate ourselves and those with any interest?
And yet these same doctors and representatives are considered an authority to sign our conscience objection form?
I am starting to wonder what I am objecting to:
1) Not vaccinating
2) Not been vaccinated by an authority that cannot explain vaccines
Heck, both are good reasons not to vaccinate.
They got nothin’ to say …and nowhere to hide…
Would a NASA shuttle pilot, with all the years of experience and qualifications that position entails, accept an invite to attend a plumbers conference?
If the shuttle exploded into smithereens as it did in 1986, a shuttle pilot might want to attend a conference by those who could tell them why.
And if 1 child in 20 were diagnosed with ASD when 30 years ago, it was one in 20,000, you would think that those who are dealing with this public health emergency would likewise want to know why…
Meryl
I volunteer to take their place. I reckon I can speak fairly well on the benefits of vaccines. I’m sure John Cunningham is probably chaffing at the bit, as he always moans that you won’t debate him. He has a good imagination, but I urge you to turn him down when he offers, and pick me for the job.
Thanks
Greg Beattie
You’re on Greg! If you would like to come and present that side, you would be most welcome. Thank you! And don’t worry, John Cunningham hasn’t got a hope in hell. He has no expertise and his attitude would automatically disqualify him.
“he has no expertise” – hate to state the obvious, but how are your ‘expertise’ any more superior to his? You wonder why nobody is willing to speak yet you fail to recognize there is a major immunization conference at the same time. That’s pretty arrogant to assume they would attend your seminar instead of doing their jobs.
Ouch. That doesn’t sound like the Meryl I’ve come to know and love
Awww Sian – and I didn’t even know you cared!
Thanks for demonstrating your respectful nature, Meryl… and to think it would have given you an opportunity to debate someone who has researched your inaccuracies. No expertise but an ability to research the truth, perhaps. Scared?
John, are you volunteering to debate me? Let me know and I’m there. Then, let the audience see who is misinformed and inaccurate. Or are you too chicken?
Great. So I’ve got the job? Wonderful. See you there.
Greg
John
If you turn up I’ll gladly step aside and let you take my place. Hope to see you there.
Greg
This post appears to take the position that an AVN seminar should be regarded by your invitees as an important avenue for presenting information supporting vaccination. That they turned you down may suggest that they consider their time and energy could be better spent using more effective channels.
It is disrespectful of the parents who will be attending this seminar to refuse to allow them to hear and question both sides Shelley. Plain and simple.
There are many other accessible fora in which these parents can hear and question experts on vaccination. Community health centres, for example. Surely intelligent, pro-choice adults who do their own research are capable of sourcing comprehensive information outside an AVN seminar?
Furthermore, it is possible that the health professionals you’ve approached have read some of your opinions regarding thattheir expertise and consider those disrespectful.
Surely it is possible for a well-informed person such as yourself, to present both the pros and cons? I am confident that anyone well-read in the field of vaccination, whatever their personal opinion would, could, and should, be able to present a balanced perspective on vaccination. I am looking forward to catching up with you in Canberra.
Sian, unfortunately, Canberra is not on the agenda at this point in time, but I will be a many places that are not too far from Canberra – look at the email I sent out today. Come along and you and your partner can get in for free. Just tell them at the door that I sent you. Looking forward to finally meeting you.